Vacuum based unit

[fu89]

Hey guys, I recently decided to go for a negative pressure (vacuum) setup on my '06 Toyota Tacoma 4.0L. It seems as if all the rules change once you put your ordinary HHO system under vacuum; I was running a 10 plate setup with 1/4 tsp of baking soda in 1/2 gallon of tap water when I was running as a pressure system and once I hooked it up to my vacuum line everything changed. I blew about 4 30amp fuses until I removed 7 of my plates but the kicker is, now I have three 4.5 X 4.5 plates (2 gang SS blank light switch plates) and 1 1/4 tsp of baking soda and the unit stays cold and I'm producing enough HHO to get water from my tailpipe. The unit bubbles with a fury and does not seem to get hot, even after a 70 mile trip. Theres a hitch though, I'm not really seeing much gain and I'm not sure if I have the AFR O2 sensors in this truck. I know I'm producing HHO because at idle, after about 5 minutes I start getting smoke from the exhaust which tells me that the O2 sensors are sending a lean indication to my computer which in turn richens my mixture. Has anyone else tried this type of system and do you have any ideas on why I'm not getting mpg gains?

[BoyntonStu]

Hey guys, I recently decided to go for a negative pressure (vacuum) setup on my '06 Toyota Tacoma 4.0L. It seems as if all the rules change once you put your ordinary HHO system under vacuum; I was running a 10 plate setup with 1/4 tsp of baking soda in 1/2 gallon of tap water when I was running as a pressure system and once I hooked it up to my vacuum line everything changed. I blew about 4 30amp fuses until I removed 7 of my plates but the kicker is, now I have three 4.5 X 4.5 plates (2 gang SS blank light switch plates) and 1 1/4 tsp of baking soda and the unit stays cold and I'm producing enough HHO to get water from my tailpipe. The unit bubbles with a fury and does not seem to get hot, even after a 70 mile trip. Theres a hitch though, I'm not really seeing much gain and I'm not sure if I have the AFR O2 sensors in this truck. I know I'm producing HHO because at idle, after about 5 minutes I start getting smoke from the exhaust which tells me that the O2 sensors are sending a lean indication to my computer which in turn richens my mixture. Has anyone else tried this type of system and do you have any ideas on why I'm not getting mpg gains?

Water boils at a lower temperature in a vacuum.

As water boils in vacuum, the temperature is lowered.

Adding Hydroxy with no ECU adjustments will reduce MPG.

Read Smith03Jetta threads to learn the secret.

I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

[fu89]

Ok, will do. Thank you.

[fu89]

I guess an EFIE is next...any suggestion on who may sell a good quality unit?

[mario brito]

Adding Hydroxy with no ECU adjustments will reduce MPG.
BoyntonStu

sorry, but not true. no O2, ECU, MAF or any other changes on my car, and i'm getting more then 20% gains.

thanks

[BoyntonStu]

sorry, but not true. no O2, ECU, MAF or any other changes on my car, and i'm getting more then 20% gains.

thanks

"sorry, but not true." Perhaps in your car.

You have no evidence that by just adding Hydroxy, MPG will increase for another person's car.

Please read Smith03Jetta's thread.

I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

[mario brito]

"sorry, but not true." Perhaps in your car.

You have no evidence that by just adding Hydroxy, MPG will increase for another person's car.

Please read Smith03Jetta's thread.

I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

i do have an evidence and it's parked in front of my window right now.

what i said is that it can work, not that it works with all cars. what you said is that it can't work, witch imply's that it won't work on any car. and that's not true.

i read EVERY Mr. Smith's posts.

thanks

[BoyntonStu]

i do have an evidence and it's parked in front of my window right now.

what i said is that it can work, not that it works with all cars. what you said is that it can't work, witch imply's that it won't work on any car. and that's not true.

i read EVERY Mr. Smith's posts.

thanks

Is that another person's car?

I think that it wonderful that you have such great success in improving your MPG by more than 20% by just adding Hydroxy.

Please give us all the cell and MPG testing details.

We are all envious of your progress.

BoyntonStu

[Phantom240]

"sorry, but not true." Perhaps in your car.

You have no evidence that by just adding Hydroxy, MPG will increase for another person's car.

Please read Smith03Jetta's thread.

I hope that this helps.

BoyntonStu

You have no evidence that just by adding hydroxy (which is "Brown's Gas" or more correctly, Oxyhydrogen) you lower fuel economy, Mr. Knowitall.


Back to the topic at hand, what color is the smoke? If its white, it is most likely just steam created from the combustion process with your HHO generator working. If its black, then that would indicate running rich.

[BoyntonStu]

You have no evidence that just by adding hydroxy (which is "Brown's Gas" or more correctly, Oxyhydrogen) you lower fuel economy, Mr. Knowitall.


Back to the topic at hand, what color is the smoke? If its white, it is most likely just steam created from the combustion process with your HHO generator working. If its black, then that would indicate running rich.

Who do you trust?

I trust Smith03Jetta.

I trust his hard earned data and not other people's words.

BoyntonStu

I offer you Smith03Jetta:

"I will go out on a limb here and suggest that HHO does not MAKE you get better gas mileage. What is my rational?

Here's how to get better gas mileage. This method is based on a modern fuel injected engine with knock sensors and the ability to retard timing to avoid detonation.

1. Electronically Lean out the Fuel flow to the engine (Regardless of the method used, EFIE, MAF, MAP, Laptop managment. The engine will start burning lean so the engine will automatically retard the timing to avoid lean valve pinging / Detonation. This will result in better gas mileage at reduced engine power. This is not a good condition for an engine to run in for very long. Engine damage can result.

2. Now add 1 liter of HHO/minute to the 2.0 liter engine. The HHO corrects the lean condition that is causing the engine knocking. The engine smooths out and the engine timing resets to the correct position automatically.

3. You now have reduced dependency on Gasoline. You can run your engine intentionally lean and use HHO as a bandaid to keep down the pinging. Higher Octane rating reduces pinging.

If you don't agree with my suggestions, pump some 87 octane in a vehicle that requires 91 or 93 octane and after a few miles stomp on the gas. You will hear valve noise. The lower octane rating lets the fuel burn quicker (Same effect with less fuel in the cylinder. It burns up quicker) The Higher Octane rating extends the burn time so the engine runs smoother and does not knock, ping, detonate. The HHO acts as an octane booster for ultra-lean fuel/air mixtures.

>>>>>>>!!!!!!

I think lots of people including myself have been operating under a misconception. What is that misconception? "HHO IMPROVES YOUR GAS MILEAGE!" <<<<<<<
I don't believe it for a minute.

On a modern computer controlled vehicle adding HHO will instantly decrease your gas mileage. It is a fact. I've observed it on both of my vehicles. They are both VWs. Both have advanced computer controls. Drive by wire systems.

After introducing the HHO and recording the resulting lower gas mileage results, you are then tasked with leaning out the gasoline to reach the same point you started at. It is then up to you how much leaner you wish to make the fuel mixture to get a measurable MPG improvement.

WHY DO I SAY WHAT I'm SAYING?

I did some risky testing over the last few days to see what would happen. First I set my Computer settings back to STOCK on both my test vehicles. I then did MPG tests on BOTH without HHO. I then did test runs with STOCK computer settings + HHO. On both cars I noticed a reduction in gas mileage. That tells me that without a doubt that HHO does not improve gas mileage on modern computer controlled cars.

I then leaned out my fuel mixture about 15% while Running HHO. This resulted in bringing my Gas mileage back to normal levels. My recorded MPG increases were noticed after I decreased my fuel adaptation channel to -19.5% (I leaned my fuel out another 4.5%). This resulted in an increase in Gas mileage to around 32 mpg in my car from 26 with HHO and no fuel setting mods.

I am now reducing my fuel mixture even further to see what the MAX gas mileage result I'm capable of achieving on my car. The Adaptation Channels on my primary Fuel System stops at -25%. That's as far as I can go lean without purchasing some expensive software. I'm running my car this lean intentionally for a couple days so I can get some accurate gas mileage readings.

Here are some numbers on my Jetta and Touareg. I'll give you what I've got.

Jetta 2.0 liter engine:
Stock with no HHO or mods = 24-25 mpg
O2 Extender + .4 liters HHO = 27.5 mpg
O2 Extender + MAF Enhancer + HHO = 29.5
O2 Extender + .7 liters HHO = 27.5 mpg
O2 Extender + .7 liters HHO + MAF Enhancer = 32 mpg
O2 Extender + .920 liters HHO + (-19.5% lean fuel mod) = 32 mpg (No MAF Enhancer)
O2 Extender + .920 liters HHO + (-25% lean fuel mod) = To be determined...

Touareg 3.2 liter engine:
Stock with no HHO or Mods = 19.5 mpg
Stock with 1.5 liters HHO = 12 to 14 mpg. (Decrease)
Stock with 1.5 liters HHO + (-19.5% lean fuel mod) = 19.5 - 19.8 mpg.
Stock with 1.5 liters HHO + (-25% lean fuel mod) = "I don't know yet. I haven't tested it."

The reason why I removed the MAF Enhancer is I don't want to have to twist knobs and flip switches all the time to get better gas mileage. It's annoying and can cause my engine to go into detonation if I adjust the signal voltage too low.
__________________
Mr. Smith