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Thread: Does Size Really matter?

  1. #1
    JojoJaro Guest

    Does Size Really matter?

    Folks, I am starting this thread to try to really get a good understanding of what makes a cell produce.

    If I am understanding this correctly, current is the factor that affects production. The more current the more gas. Surface area will only come into consideration as it pertains to the 'Current Density'.

    I've read that you should not exceed a current density of .5 Amps per sq. in. So, if your surface area does not exceed this current density, wouldn't surface area be irrelevant?

    For example. If you have a surface area of 10 sq. in. You should not exceed 5 amps per the density rule. The question is, will you produce more by increasing your surface area to 20 sq.in. while maintaining current at 5 amps.

    To me, having 20 sq.in. only means that I can increase my current to 10 amps thereby increasing my production. So, the benefit of size only comes into play as it allows me to pump more current. I don't believe there is anything inherently beneficial to surface area, only as it allows me to have more current.

    Am I correct in my analysis?

  2. #2
    timetowinarace Guest
    Yep, I think you have it right.

  3. #3
    sp1r0 Guest
    Try watching some vid's on youtube. lulu777, ammanninox, zerofossilfuel, sirhoax, just to name a few... Coil work done by ammanninox is very impressive.

  4. #4
    JojoJaro Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sp1r0 View Post
    Try watching some vid's on youtube. lulu777, ammanninox, zerofossilfuel, sirhoax, just to name a few... Coil work done by ammanninox is very impressive.

    Hmmm... I watched some of the videos except the Lulu777 ones. I can't find those.

    Anyways, seems like these design do produce but at a cost of excessive amps. Sure, if you put a lot of amps, most cell designs will produce impressively. But isn't the point, trying to come up with a design that will do better than 1 LPM per 10 amps and not overheating.

    I've been looking for such a design but can't seem to find one. Any leads?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    145
    10 amps isn't going to get you far without some serious thought. The traditional, "Open Bath" design probably won't get you 1lpm on 10amps. If you can find a way to make production more efficient, then have at it.

    I'm thinking of building a smaller version of the cell I'm working on, and pumping the same current to it, but with plates MUCH smaller than what I'm working with now, to see how much surface area affects production.

  6. #6
    sp1r0 Guest
    I can save you some time as I have made a simple plate electrolyzer with 6 plates. An observation I made after I added 6 more plates, the current doubled. As surface area doubles, current doubles with the same voltage. If you double the voltage with the same surface area, the current doubles.

  7. #7
    JojoJaro Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by sp1r0 View Post
    I can save you some time as I have made a simple plate electrolyzer with 6 plates. An observation I made after I added 6 more plates, the current doubled. As surface area doubles, current doubles with the same voltage. If you double the voltage with the same surface area, the current doubles.

    what was you original configuration? and after you doubled it?

    +-+-+- and doubled to +-+-+-+-+-+-

    +nnnn- and doubled to +nnnn-nnnn+

    +nnnn- doubled to +nnnn- +nnnn-

    Connected in series, parallel?

  8. #8
    Jaxom Guest
    This is something that's been on my mind lately as well. I really think that as long as you can keep the current density in check then more surface area won't do much good. It may help up to a point in that the bubbles won't get in each other's way as much when seperating from the plates, and it may help the electrodes dissipate heat, but those are the only possible benifits that I can think of. I look forward to some actual test results on this.

    I've been seriously considering building a cell half the size of the one I have for this very reason. I figure my radial cell can handle 45-50A and I don't plan on running more than 20A since it's for automotive purposes, and a smaller cell will be far easier to mount.

    Something to watch out for: you can't figure current density by the total SA in your cell, especially if you use neutral plates. You'll have to go by the SA of the smallest conducting surface. For example, if you have 7 plates at 3"x4" in a +NNNNN- config. then your total productive SA is 144sq.in. However, since the full cell current has to pass through both sides of all the plates, you'll need to figure current density using 12sq.in.

  9. #9
    JojoJaro Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaxom View Post
    Something to watch out for: you can't figure current density by the total SA in your cell, especially if you use neutral plates. You'll have to go by the SA of the smallest conducting surface. For example, if you have 7 plates at 3"x4" in a +NNNNN- config. then your total productive SA is 144sq.in. However, since the full cell current has to pass through both sides of all the plates, you'll need to figure current density using 12sq.in.

    Yes, current density is figured on the size of the cathode (negative electrode), becase this is where electron originate from.

  10. #10
    jdv109 Guest

    Question amps dropping

    Been reading here for awhile but first post so please bare with me.
    I am running +_+(+)+_+ in series in distiled water with a little less then
    4 oz of Roebic drain opener.
    Hooked up to 12 volt battery and it showed 7 amps and put out about
    4 oz lpm aftyer one hour down to 5 amps and dropping. I thought the amps should have went up?????
    Anyone know what is happening???

    Jim

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