Page 8 of 9 FirstFirst ... 6789 LastLast
Results 71 to 80 of 86

Thread: First off... which electrolytes NOT TO USE!

  1. #71
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    9

    Exclamation Have you tried using Ph Add used in pools and fish tanks

    I may be wrong about this because I'm still just learning this stuff myself, but:

    Generally distilled water carries no current.. But, with the addition of some acid solution, it becomes an excellent conductor.

    Adding acid to water causes the Ph balance to go up. I've done it countless times for pools and fish tanks..

    Once you get the proper solution that is working for you.. no matter what electrolyte you use it is good to check the Ph balance of the water...

    It is easy to check the Ph of the water. Get one of them pool tester kits.. About $6 at wal-mart. Just fill it with a sample of your HHO Converter water.. put a couple color drops in and match the water to the color chart. It will tell you what your Ph is. If you want your water more acidic.. you can raise the level up with the Ph Booster drops that come with the kit.

    Of course in pools you can't use the little drops, but, in an HHO Converter you deff could.

    The Ph Booster in those kits is used for fish tanks, so it is probably environmentally safe.. and only a couple drops will really boost you acid level up.. A couple drops will boost gallons.

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Hollywood FLA
    Posts
    53

    Sodium Hydroxide (lye) -vs- Potassium Hydroxide ?

    I read this online: "Potassium Hydroxide flakes have been used and recommended for use as an electrolyte in HHO generators. DON'T USE IT!! It will discolor your SS plates and decrease their production and performance,
    necessitating dismantling and soaking in CLR for a day or two to clean them up for re-use. I recommend Sodium Hydroxide as your electrolyte. It works well, keeps the plates clean snd the electrolyte solution usable."

    Is this true about discoloring and performance reduction?

    What about lye as the author implies is a better choice?

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    490
    Quote Originally Posted by fortwnty420 View Post
    I may be wrong about this because I'm still just learning this stuff myself, but:

    Generally distilled water carries no current.. But, with the addition of some acid solution, it becomes an excellent conductor.

    Adding acid to water causes the Ph balance to go up. I've done it countless times for pools and fish tanks..

    Once you get the proper solution that is working for you.. no matter what electrolyte you use it is good to check the Ph balance of the water...

    It is easy to check the Ph of the water. Get one of them pool tester kits.. About $6 at wal-mart. Just fill it with a sample of your HHO Converter water.. put a couple color drops in and match the water to the color chart. It will tell you what your Ph is. If you want your water more acidic.. you can raise the level up with the Ph Booster drops that come with the kit.

    Of course in pools you can't use the little drops, but, in an HHO Converter you deff could.

    The Ph Booster in those kits is used for fish tanks, so it is probably environmentally safe.. and only a couple drops will really boost you acid level up.. A couple drops will boost gallons.
    Were you smoking a doobie while typing this? If you don't know what's in it, then why risk it? Please explain.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    490
    Quote Originally Posted by TimCollins View Post
    I read this online: "Potassium Hydroxide flakes have been used and recommended for use as an electrolyte in HHO generators. DON'T USE IT!! It will discolor your SS plates and decrease their production and performance,
    necessitating dismantling and soaking in CLR for a day or two to clean them up for re-use. I recommend Sodium Hydroxide as your electrolyte. It works well, keeps the plates clean snd the electrolyte solution usable."

    Is this true about discoloring and performance reduction?

    What about lye as the author implies is a better choice?
    You WILL get a layer buildup on your plates of the right kind if you do things correctly. This is actually a good thing. KOH has never caused any type of buildup that hinders production. Ever.


  5. #75
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    Steve, have you ever checked the resistance on a virgin plate compared to a plate with a catalytic build up. There is a number of tests that can be run. Also have you tested the difference between a run plate with a build up that has been allowed to dry completely and then put back in service. Another test is using 2 plates 2 volts and an accurately measured electrolyte to see if there is any difference in amp draw when compared with different plates; with build up/without build up/dried/not dried etc. I think we would all be surprised with the results.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    1

    Ammonia as electrolyte...

    Has anyone tried ammonia as electrolyte?? It seems it has NH3 composition and is alkaline.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    1,418
    Has anyone tried ammonia as electrolyte?? It seems it has NH3 composition and is alkaline.
    Ammonia is a weak electrolyte. It's a molecular compound, and so doesn't break up into cations and anions. But any substance that produces ions in solution can be considered an electrolyte; dissociation isn't the only way a substance can produce ions. Ammonia is an electrolyte because it produces ions by the following reaction:
    NH3(aq) + H2O = NH4+(aq) + OH-(aq)
    Ammonia is a weak rather than strong electrolyte because this reaction runs both ways; ammonia reacts with water to produce ammonium and hydroxide ions, while hydroxide ions react with ammonium ions to produce ammonia and water. The reaction clearly shows that ammonia is a base because it accepts a hydrogen ion from the water.

    There are number of people trying some combination of ammonia and other bases to increase the H content the the gas. Some have reported gains at low wattage and others have reported no gains. There are electrolytes that have ammonia as part of their make up sold even on eBay. I am just setting up to do some testing as soon as I can free up a reactor. My under standing is limited at the moment and the above information is not mine I give credit to who ever wrote its main parts and was taken form some of my notes so is not a direct quote. There is a lot of information out there so do a little research and then some testing. Others I am sure will be able to contribute much more in detail.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed lamb."

    ONE Liter per minute per 10 amps which just isn't possible Ha Ha .

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    7

    Electrochemisry 101

    Ok, I'm amazed that I have to do this in my first post/comment, but wow, chemistry sure isn't a strong suit here is it?

    Quote Originally Posted by alba View Post
    I would like to know what is the consequences using salt..
    Hi buddy, I'm here to help!

    Electrochemistry 101:
    First off, NaCl - common table salt - is PERFECTLY FINE as an electrolyte, as is any of the strong electrolytes here.
    "Why?" I hear you ask. It is because of the nature of ionic solutions! Ionic solutions are comprised of two parts, the anion (negatively charged) and the cation (positively charged) When they are solid, IE not dissolved, they are solid, like the table salt you sprinkle on food. but as soon as you dissolve it in water*, they dissociate into an ionic solution like so: NaCl(s) → Na+(aq) + Cl−(aq)
    Before you go crazy and call that chlorine a gas and sodium a metal, remember that they will still be salt if you remove the water. the same thing happens with NaOH, your favorite. NaOH(s) → Na+(aq) + OH−(aq).
    "But the wikipedia says chlorine gas will be liberated" And that's true if you're working with molten sodium chloride, which you most certainly are not as you all would have died before you even melted any. You need to remember that you are working with water which will split long before the salt.
    One more nail that I feel I must drive into this coffin is that I have used salt as an electrolyte in my basement for 2 or 3 weeks straight in a wet cell making rust. I tossed a few cups of salt into a big tub of water with a stainless steel cathode(iirc) and some iron weights as the anode with a 12v computer power supply doing all the hard work. When it was done I had a few pounds of Fe2O3 and Fe3O4 and no chlorine gas anywhere.

    I must however point out something that the list doesn't mention, acids tend to like metals. For why I must point you to the reactivity series. Let us just say that short of gold**, perhaps platinum, and sometimes even silver, mercury, or copper, pretty much all metals will react with most acids. Basically, acids are not optimal.
    I must also point out why bases are better. The bases on that list i mentioned earlier all have a metal attached and because of that are less likely to react with the electrodes. Again, they also are ionic and do not participate in the reactions, they only facilitate them. Bringing back the reactivity series, the more reactive the attached metal is, the fewer metals it will react with (in an ionic solution).
    Now for my favorites, salts. Salts are even less reactive than the other two since they are a metal that has already reacted with an acid, leaving little room to react. and like with the bases, the reactivity series predicts what else it can react with in solution, with NaCl being one of the less nasty ones.

    This is only the beginning.
    End of part 1

    *They will dissolve in any similar solvent, but for practical purposes of this discussion water is the only solvent.
    **Gold is the least reactive and can only be dissolved by aqua regia, a mix of HCl and HNO3.
    The base is under a salt

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    7

    Part 2

    Myth Busting:
    Quote Originally Posted by bagrman View Post
    one is that it will make up Chlorine gas,
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratous View Post
    Sodium Chloride (salt) releases Chlorine gas when used in an electrolyzer
    Chlorine gas: This doesn't happen when you're trying to split water. Ever. All because the ions they split into only act as charge carriers.

    Quote Originally Posted by bagrman View Post
    you are putting salt residue into your motor to burn? Don't know the long term effects that would have.
    It does not matter in the least what the hell kind of electrolyte you get in your engine, they are all really bad for it, probably lethal too. Actually, I have no idea what happens when you get unnecessary stuff in your engine either, it probably ends up as a residue somewhere that cleaners aren't designed to clean, which is generally a bad thing. What I do know is that if you have a filter, IE a bubbler, than that will collect any random junk that comes out of your cell. If you still don't understand chemistry, than my telling you that water will absorb any chlorine or HCl gas that is [not] released from your cell probably won't help either.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeP View Post
    Using Salt as an electrolye is not only bad, but also ineffective.
    100% wrong. It is equally as effective as NaOH, as they are both strong electrolytes. The dude who claimed this mentioned "8 parts Epsom salts, to 3 parts baking soda, per 2-2.5L" as a better 'mix'. MgCl2 is also a strong electrolyte and a salt, but baking soda is most definitely not. As for mixing 'parts' of an unlabeled quantity, thats just useless. for instance: if I took this recipe and used .08 milligrams of MgCl2 and .03 milligrams of NaHCO3, still an 8 to 3 ratio, with 2 liters of pure water, I would have a less contaminated water than if I used tap water. If I used pounds on the other hand, I could make a pool work.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAwesome View Post
    I'll have to pick up on my chemistry skills
    Is that what you call them?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAwesome View Post
    2NaHCO3 + H2O + Energy(electricity?) = 2H2 + O2 + 2CO2 + 2NaH
    (or maybe = 2H2 + 2CO2 + 2NaOH?)
    No,
    NaHCO3(aq) + 2H2O(l) + e- -> 2H2(g) + O2(g) + 2NaHCO3(aq)
    e- is your electrons which break up the H2O


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAwesome View Post
    ...Sodium hydride...
    Nice try, but "NaH is produced by the direct reaction of hydrogen and liquid sodium.[3]". not only that, it hates water more fiercely than sodium metal

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainAwesome View Post
    Oh right, my point being, is it wise using an electrolyte that will make your car produce CO2 and if so, it's probably a good idea separating the H2 and O2 from the CO2 before it's combusted.
    1) The electrolyte and its parts never get to the cylinders, they barely make it out of the reactor cell.
    2) Unless you have one of those rare pure hydrogen engines, you will ALWAYS make CO2, its a fact of the fuel.
    The base is under a salt

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    7

    Part 3

    Quote Originally Posted by roller24 View Post
    Im using Ocean Water, it works very well,
    ^^^This guy is living proof that salt works, take note.^^^
    As it should. Just don't always use it since the dissolved minerals will eventually build up and you will need to clean it. Just use some seawater to start and switch to fresh.

    [QUOTE=roller24;110Im using threaded rod as connectors and am experiencing excessive corrosion.[/QUOTE]
    Probably using mild steel or generic galvanized stuff, corrosion will happen there. Use stainless steel or aluminium connectors instead (if you keep using seawater of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by hmfdesigns View Post
    when using baking soda you are only making about 66% hydrogen and almost 30% carbon dioxide and even a littel carbon monoxide
    Not in electrolysis, you get CO2 if you mix it with acids, like vinegar. Coincidentally, baking soda, vinegar, and sodium acetate(one of the other byproducts of that reaction) are all electrolytes.

    Quote Originally Posted by ELECTR0N3RD View Post
    why is epsom salt any different from regular salt?
    In a technical sense they are not, since you get a “salt” when you react stuff with acids, but in laymans terms they are very different. Epsom salt is MgSO4 and “regular salt” - table salt – is NaCl, a completely different molecule. Also, table salt is a better electrolyte than epsom's.

    Quote Originally Posted by computerclinic View Post
    I figure that introducing the water into the engine and exaust will have enough of a long term impact to deal with
    All the hydrocarbon, wait no, all fuels produce H2O. Except nuclear, but you guys aren't trying to time travel or pilot a submarine either(and those guys know all about electrolysis of seawater)
    The base is under a salt

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •