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Thread: Maybe it's the Steam?

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    im usin one of those cold mist vaporizers, the kind with the thing that spins inside and flings the water out very vast to vaporize it. Ive got my intake air running through the inside of that water vaporizor where theres ALOT of water vapor. it works great. and its dinamic. the more air sucked in the more water sucked in.
    The way I see it, if you're gonna build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style?
    www.hhounderground.com

  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helz_McFugly View Post
    im usin one of those cold mist vaporizers, the kind with the thing that spins inside and flings the water out very vast to vaporize it. Ive got my intake air running through the inside of that water vaporizor where theres ALOT of water vapor. it works great. and its dinamic. the more air sucked in the more water sucked in.
    Where did you get it?

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    my wife bought it at the mall, maybe sharper image, a few years ago. its not one of the large ones although they would work all the same. its kinda like thos but only about 6 inches tall and 10 inched in diameter. and mines clear so you can see what going on inside. Ill post a vid soon.
    http://www.allergybegone.com/vicks-v...cid=C11639x008

    OK so while i was trying to find mine on goole I saw these ultrasonic humidifiers. AWESOME. google ultrasonic humidifier, those would work great.
    The way I see it, if you're gonna build a time machine into a car, why not do it with some style?
    www.hhounderground.com

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    Most of those have a similar transducer than the ones that gave me grief. Try googling ultrasonic fogger.
    Red Rat

  5. Default maybe its the steam

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland Jacques View Post
    Call me crazy but I think i am seeing a pattern from the super High gain crowds.

    Of the "100% to 200 % plus gains" crowd it seems that most run Very hot electrolysers. (most of them dont even realise they are running very hot cells.) They have also claimed that closer to combustion chamber to intro there gas is better.

    Could it be that the HHO is complemented by large amount of steam? Could that be a key point in kicking up the effectiveness of HHO for those sup.er gains????

    Id bet some may be running 80% of their gas output is steam.

    Ive wanted to test this theory now for a few month now with a small Gasoline electric generator. but i dont have access to one. Seeing One more guy with super super super claims of outrageous MPG's.

    Any opinions
    you've heard of shaving the heads will increase power. Thats because it shrinks the compustion area and gives you a larger bang. If you induce steam into the engine, steam being a non-combustable, therefore taking up space and reducing the combustion area, giving you more compression and a biger bang.

  6. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by ralphscrafts View Post
    you've heard of shaving the heads will increase power. Thats because it shrinks the compustion area and gives you a larger bang. If you induce steam into the engine, steam being a non-combustable, therefore taking up space and reducing the combustion area, giving you more compression and a biger bang.
    As mention before, (Maybe in a different thread) the extremely small amount of water (non compressible) would have the very smallest amount of change on the compression ratio.
    It would be like shaving .00000001" off the heads (guesstimating) I've crunched the numbers before and it was minuscule practically non detectable.




    1 liter an hour of water (That's allot by some standards) in a 3 liter engine

    800RPMs divided by 2 (half are compression stokes) = 400 Rpms
    400 RPMs x 60 minutes =24,000
    24,000 x 3 liters = 72,000 liters

    72,000 divided by 1 liter or 1/72,000= 0.00000138 Or 0.000138 of 1%
    Not much effect on compression, wouldn't you agree?
    Last edited by Roland Jacques; 12-12-2009 at 12:11 AM.

  7. #77

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    Well, for the 'sound crazy' thread, here are some more theories..

    About electrolysing water vapor, steam, there is some logic to it:

    since we split the H2 and the O from the water, the higher temperature the water is, bigger the distance from its molecules, so it should be easier to electrolyse;

    haven't you thought about Paul Pantone's engine, since the water vapour passes thru a thin space, with a wobbling steel rod in high frequency vibration, could be electrolysing the water by pressure and HF vibration? He also recirculates gases from the exhaust to heat and push vapours.

    some companies produce on-demand hho but first they recirculate the HHO into the water reservoir, so the water being electrolysed is saturated with free H2 already?

    Se if we use electricity to separate the H2 and O, it wouldn't harm if we steam the water first, and even recirculated some H2 before entering the dry cell..

    I also compare that water injection in high rpm/high performance cars; at 7000 rpm, injecting a steam of nebulized water thru a nozzle into the admission or combustion chamber is - in fact - cooling the combustion chamber a little, but also gives some extra-HPs: some say it is because of the cool down, but I believe it is also using H2 and O separated inside the chamber. We did that on turbo mitsubishis (eclipses, 3000gts, eagle talons and plymouth lasers)...

    Well just my 2c for the crazy ideas, take care!
    -------------------------
    6x6 plates (304SS)
    Currently researching on:
    - Al3O2 .5 micron-spheres blasted to Ni-plated SS electrodes
    - Hydrophilic center-cell tissue spacers
    - Neoprene pressure builder in HHO outlet associated with pre-cell water pump
    - Ni-Ti (.016") filaments welded to SS electrodes to guide current distribution
    - Organic Polymers (selective membrane, electrode life, solid electrolyte, etc)
    -------------------------

  8. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by rboos View Post
    Well, for the 'sound crazy' thread, here are some more theories..

    About electrolysing water vapor, steam, there is some logic to it:


    haven't you thought about Paul Pantone's engine, since the water vapour passes thru a thin space, with a wobbling steel rod in high frequency vibration, could be electrolysing the water by pressure and HF vibration? He also recirculates gases from the exhaust to heat and push vapours.

    Well just my 2c for the crazy ideas, take care!
    I believe Paul's system worked the same with or with out his "magnetic rod"

    Is HHO being produced at the high temps with pressure...? maybe but I dont think so. I think it simple highly atomized water vapor's effect on the combustion chamber

    Feel free to stop by the Crazy thread any time
    When you're one step ahead of the crowd you're a genius.
    When you're two steps ahead, you're a crackpot."

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    Good evening, fellow molecules! I've been lurking for a week or so out of interest in the forum subject matter. This particular one about steam is one I have pondered over for some time.

    My theory is that the steam is helpful, but not from any exotic HHO separation effects or even as a marginal anti-knock agent. I think it is a crucial key to addressing engine pumping losses at idle and low throttle loads (pretty much the zone we operate the engine most of the time, unless you are racing somebody). The issue is that we operate the engine at a partial vacuum most of the time, and it is fundamentally inefficient to expect the small air/fuel charge to expand under combustion to essentially fill the vacuum and then reach some marginal pressure to gently push the piston down in the powerstroke. It would be ideal to introduce the metered charge at a constant atmospheric pressure, then the expansion will directly go toward moving the piston, but we cannot do that on a gasoline engine due to the way the air has to be throttled in order to control the engine.

    Soooo, steam ends up being the next best thing to introduce as an inert space-taker in the combustion chamber. Then when you ignite the rarefied charge of air + fuel, it is expanding alongside the partial pressure of the water vapor, instead of filling some degree of vacuum, which results in more of that expansion going to directly moving the piston.

    Suffice to say, it is something I would like to experiment more on my own car. As for the HHO scene, I believe it could be a helpful effect to naturally complement the whole combustion of HHO thing. It will be helpful from a standpoint of idle/low load operation to ensure the actual HHO contribution can be as potent as it can be. Personally, I'm not (yet) convinced that HHO makes sense, but I do think that complementary steam induction can only assist whatever you are achieving (and just enhancing plain gasoline combustion, altogether).

    My personal interest is such that using H2 alone as a supplementary fuel under idle/low load conditions is the real ticket (objective- use less gas than you normally would have as the engine is putting around town). Access to oxygen is not really where we are hurting when it comes to internal combustion engines, unless you are shooting for maximum hp output, imo. Adding more of it only confuses the engine controls, as many of you have discovered. If you are really interested in achieving a "full burn", then it is time and temperature that is the limiting factors. The former is naturally limited by the inevitable appearance of the exhaust stroke, while the latter will be actively regulated by the engine controller via mixture richness and ignition timing to meet its own priorities. You can guess that it is in the catalyst where the exhaust is treated to likewise achieve what you are trying to do in the combustion chamber with the HHO, imo.
    Last edited by randycat99; 07-01-2010 at 02:21 AM.

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    Hi redrat100. How can I measure it through the condenser? Do you know how to use it? Can you teach me please?
    ________
    Colorado Medical Marijuana Dispensaries
    Last edited by makindue; 09-17-2011 at 07:57 PM.

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